
Robert Duberg Please explain
Mark Michael Lewis what do you think it means Robert?
Robert Duberg Not being so familiar with Nietzsche's thinking, I would have to make an assumption(s). But, going strictly on semantics here the whole idea seems to turn on the expression "...to face what he already knows." To understand this ACT in light of his view that "Even the most courageous...only rarely has the courage..." would imply facing what one already knows to be something very remarkable (as you clearly think so by publishing this quotation) and accessible only by a kind of courage expressed by an extraordinary few of those of us who could be said to be courageous already. Thus, if we were to juxtapose these two dimensions of courage and self-exploration, it really isn't courage which is the focus of this statement is it? Except, it is exactly courage which is necessary to open this particular inward act of recognition. He's saying something about the ACT of acquring Ontological Knowledge as well as maintaining it. is my best guess estimate. And your statement about the water being warm is a comment addressing the interior landscape where this knowledge exists and is so acquired. However, I don't see how your comment adds anything to the reality and in fact, misses the point; which is not about fear, in my view, but rather ignorance.
Robert Duberg Shall I continue, or have I gone off the rails sideways already? LOL
Mark Michael Lewis Sounds good to me.
I am of the opinion that fear is most often ignorance in disguise. Ignorance about our innermost processes is (Freud took after Nietzsche here) part and parcel of human awareness. The water is warm, but it still might be shocking. And, if you freak out, you still might choke or even drown. And, that is either a turn on or a danger signal, or both - depending on your style. smile emoticon
Robert Duberg LOL ... well, I'd rather not get melodramatic about it, that won't help anything, regardless of style. But, if so good so far then I will continue, yes? Unless, you want to take a stab (LOL) at the idea of innermost process and apply it here in practical manner? I think keeping the water out of it will make things clearer since we've clarified the focus to innermost process or knowledge, yes or no? Or, you're right on the money and the fear your speaking about is the ignorance I'm speaking about which for me, both have to do with facing inward FURTHER, OR IE having the understanding that what we know is NEVER true but a certain level of interpretation and application (our own personal heuristic if you will) that can be refined over any expansion of consciousness and awareness we attain. The reality here regarding the courage is that of being ready to let go of our own identity and sense of person in order to refine, update, acquire a higher truth of said Self. Yay or nay? Am I on the right track? See, I say there are more possibilities than what we're speaking about being a turn on or a threat or both, and this is where I would depart from Nietzsche I guess or you, in that there's more to going inward further than courage or style, at least as far as you have qualified style. It would really be cool to know the context from which this excerpt of his was taken. I don't suppose you have it do you?
I concluded with this .... "I just heard the coolest quote from Hemingway, "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility means being superior to your former self."
I will add to this as Mark chooses to.
Huhhhhhhh???? (referring to Nancy's query to explore statements I've made about death .. I think...?? Not so sure.)
Paging NGR, tell me she hasn't left the party everyone, cause if there is one thing I've learned over the last month's detour which took me a real time and fashion closer to death than perhaps since '97 (don't you just love those 5 star stays at the local hospital? ooooh) ... it is that preparation for my death was not some wishful thing to say but rather a stark reality of life that being, who of us can even claim their ready regarding the event of which the most fundamental mystery of life exists in order to that she may always one heartbeat away from transforming herself all anew!!
So, raising myself off the dusty floor after that first doozy of a step let's all look to see what the questions we have about death are. I know Jivana's everyone ggl ... it's never changed and it is simply the question of whether or not we will transcend death on the physical plane and even more boldly she wants to know why the present isn't sufficient in the larger cosmological scale of things. Give her all a hand for having a clear vision and purpose relative to death on top of which she claims the mantle against the very adversarial nature which death has eternally inspired. This question whch to some extent lives in every man's heart that ever lived, she drags up into the spotlight and claims NOW as never before. I have always been so inspired by this level of courage and clarity expressed by her on the matter. I'm not so sure that I'm ready to discard the mystery yet though which I'm quite sure would need to be dislodged if her intention and desire were to finally submit to her charge.
OK then? Next question ... what's up with being alive on this physical plane in the first place anyway? And why am I sooooooo attached to a life that in the larger order of things appears to be analogous to living in the basement of the mansion we know as the Universe? This leads to a very cogent line of study and undersanding if one pursues it with the right spirit, that is as an opportunity to begin the preparation for the big mystery before it has even thought about you for its next show. For me this is as close to defeating the mystery as I have considered possible. To bring what ever is behind the veil back and out from under the mystery the veil presents for us, if only within myself even. Such esoteric adventure somehow gives meaning and purpose to what would otherwise be a rather pathetic cluster phhuck of an experience in which at best one pays homage to the awesomeness of higher physical realms and the beings who dwell there like our own very beautiful Gaia.
You haven't lived until Gaia serves you up for a special ride on local Eagle of Spirit's back of consciousness, and just within the balanced gravitational vortex where the Sun and moon sit facing oneanother at that moment along her onw horizone EM-Cing the whole affair with their bodies of light refraction and production which alone are mysterious enough if not for how simply elegant and beautful as one can imagine the show of light in the universe can get for us microbes running around here at this basement level.